[08:11] <5pitf1re> yh, I support that
[08:11] <5pitf1re> carriers are no longer a swiss army knife to justify that price
[08:11] <5pitf1re> same goes for FAX machines … they can’t even send or receive a fax
[09:55] <max_kolonko> I'm in favor of this solution as a way to mitigate sp inflation. But it can not be that i have to retrain anything. Sure, reduce multipler but add second skill to those that have prerequisite for both.
[09:55] <max_kolonko> As in add this skill with current carrier level
[09:56] <max_kolonko> I've read arguments on reddit that its not ship you have flown, so its not like you are loosing access to something
[09:56] <max_kolonko> Which is wrong on so many levels
[09:57] <max_kolonko> I used carriers mainly for triage
[09:57] <max_kolonko> Sometimes only as drone boat
[09:57] <max_kolonko> But have been training hard to get into supers
[09:58] <max_kolonko> And the only reason i dont have a super is because im waiting for stats on new Supers.
[09:59] <max_kolonko> So if a pkayer spend 3 month making sure he can fly what he want ccp goes "you have to train it again, sorry"
[10:24] <5pitf1re> Honestly, I can't find any reasonable argument against capqu's idea to have FAX machines linked to the carrier skill.
[10:25] <capqu> i wouldnt call that my idea
[10:25] <capqu> its just common sense
[10:25] <capqu> there is no gallente heavy inderdictor skill
[10:25] <capqu> just gallente cruiser v and heavy interdictor i for phobos
[10:26] <capqu> why wouldnt a FAX be gallente carrier v and FAX i?
[10:26] <5pitf1re> I mean, you could argue that those are t2 ships and follow another pattern but I still don't see why it couldn't apply to the FAX.
[10:26] <capqu> or carrier iii or something like supers are if you dont want to make em t2
[10:26] <5pitf1re> yea
[10:26] <5pitf1re> carrier iv, whatever
[10:27] <capqu> basically the current plan means everyone has to shill out for 500 mil of potentially useless skillbook
[10:27] <capqu> per race they fly
[10:27] <5pitf1re> All in all it's a bit sad that the possible options haven't been discussed with the group.
[10:27] <capqu> i say potentially useless because in the event they transfer SP they will not use the racial carrier anymore and in the event they don't they wont use the racial fax
[10:27] <capqu> so thats 500m or w/e down the drain per race for a lot of people
[10:28] <darren_fox> SP inflation, ship converstion etc has been discussed yet, but this particular solution hasn't
[10:28] <capqu> plus the upcoming skill injectors are very badly timed with this mass sp requirement
[10:28] <capqu> makes it seem very cashgrab
[10:28] <capqu> regardless of whether thats the case or not
[10:28] <5pitf1re> I have to agree there.
[10:29] <capqu> has larrikin replied to any of the negative feedback about the skills
[10:30] <capqu> i think even just a "we are considering the communitys opinion and looking into it" or some other pr garbage would settle a lot of people down
[10:31] <capqu> although i personally believe silence is the best answer to any and all community opinions
[10:32] <5pitf1re> Frankly, if this is the way things go, I don't see the need for focus groups or a CSM.
[10:32] <capqu> csm has been a joke for years now
[10:32] <capqu> its just for pr
[10:32] <capqu> the focus group however started promisingly enough
[10:33] <capqu> but i guess the holidays took the steam away
[10:33] <5pitf1re> I'm a naïve optimist.
[10:35] <capqu> i hope reddit in general is ignored but i wish there was some communication here or the csm or something
[10:36] <darren_fox> The challenge about Faux/Carrier/SP/Ships is tricky. You need to accomplish a lot: 1) Ensure that if you are sitting in it now, you can fly it post-patch 2) Avoid alienating old and new players 3) Have a clear progression path for logistics -> triage and drones -> fighters 4) Allow some flexibility
[10:36] <capqu> new players is a myth
[10:36] <capqu> and should not be taken into consideration for anything imo
[10:36] <capqu> sure they exist but they are such a small % that its not worth considering
[10:37] <capqu> i think making FAX t2 carriers would be the best solution
[10:37] <sebastien_st.frusquin> literally how do you alienate new players ?
[10:37] <capqu> requiring carrier 5 and a new skill
[10:37] <darren_fox> ok, don't take new players literally then. "Players without carrier skills trained, but plan to have them"
[10:37] <sebastien_st.frusquin> they are new, how can they know/care about all that stuff
[10:37] <sebastien_st.frusquin> oh okay then
[10:38] <5pitf1re> So, that's even more of a point for the idea to link FAX to the racial carrier skill instead.
[10:38] <sebastien_st.frusquin> well if they have current plans to go into a carrier when we have no real clue how they will be after citadel, they are quite naive
[10:38] <darren_fox> But what are the skill requirements for Fauxx today, does it require carrier to inject?
[10:39] <capqu> the requirements are the same as carrier + triage afaik
[10:39] <capqu> and carrier will be current carrier + drone skills
[10:41] <5pitf1re> The concerns raised by people in tweetfleet slack capital channel yesterday were valid. I can understand how taking away abilities and hiding them behind a new SP wall at the same time you introduce SP for cash can leave a bad taste.
[10:41] <capqu> i just wanna know if my links carrier pilot is gonna be useless
[10:41] <capqu> ; - ;
[10:42] <darren_fox> Although it might be a minor detail, I think what CCP is trying to do is to create Faux as a different capital type. We think if it as a carrier w/triage module, but in the vision (tm) it is a progression from T2 logistics ships.
[10:43] <capqu> no shit
[10:43] <ccp_larrikin> What @darren_fox said.
[10:44] <5pitf1re> but it doesn't follow the same progression path
[10:44] <capqu> we realise that ccp_larrikin but it doesnt change that most people expect the ole if you can fly it before you can fly it after
[10:45] <sebastien_st.frusquin> you know, we can say whatever we want, this is not going to work in the end
[10:45] <capqu> if you are doing the sp refund path, then you'd have to refund drones, triage modules, logistics v, all carrier races
[10:45] <capqu> and the money for the expensive books
[10:45] <sebastien_st.frusquin> the average Triage pilot that also Carrier rat can do both now
[10:45] <capqu> otherwise its just incomplete and not worth doing
[10:45] <5pitf1re> they are both t1, if I inject minmatar cruiser, I can fly the stabber and the scythe
[10:45] <sebastien_st.frusquin> and he won't do both after
[10:45] <sebastien_st.frusquin> unless CCP gives free SP
[10:45] <capqu> either go full refund or dont half ass it
[10:45] <sebastien_st.frusquin> and that's not going to happen
[10:45] <gorski_car> you seem very entitled capqu
[10:46] <capqu> go cry about the svipul in ur channel
[10:46] <sebastien_st.frusquin> so let's accept CCP is going to fuck someone over and move on, even if it means unsubbing and stop playing
[10:46] <capqu> no seb they arent fucking anyone over
[10:46] <capqu> thats being dramatic
[10:46] <capqu> they are leaving usless sp on characters after a refund designed to aleviate useless sp
[10:46] <sebastien_st.frusquin> it is
[10:46] <capqu> useless sp on characters which you can clearly see can be extracted by the new real money injection
[10:47] <sebastien_st.frusquin> that's words, the bottom line is, I will have to sacrifice either the ratting carrier (and SC sitter) or the triage pilots on several of my characters
[10:47] <capqu> i propose either refund ALL relevant skills or none
[10:47] <ccp_larrikin> I can see some argument for refunding fighter skills. I'm not saying we're going to do that mind you, but I can see the argument. As for refunding drone skills, those skills are useful in many other ships (not just carriers) and thats taking the argument too far IMO.
[10:47] <capqu> i agree
[10:47] <capqu> regular drone skills is too far
[10:48] <capqu> but what about tactical logistics reconfig and logi 5 on characters with no cruiser 5
[10:48] <sebastien_st.frusquin> you can refund everything you want, it will still not mean crap if there is more SP after than change than before to do the same things
[10:48] <capqu> and links skills on characters with no command ships / t3s
[10:48] <capqu> assuming links are moving away from carriers
[10:49] <sebastien_st.frusquin> unless you cut down hard on the multiplier of both carriers and faxes
[10:49] <capqu> theres a lot of uses the current carrier has that it wont have in future which requires a shit load of SP
[10:49] <sebastien_st.frusquin> and I doubt that's the plan
[10:49] <ccp_larrikin> and assuming links can't be used on Faux?
[10:49] <capqu> yeah, either
[10:49] <ccp_larrikin> again, I'm not saying they will be able too.
[10:49] <capqu> oh i understand
[10:49] <capqu> im just saying any skill that is potentially useless on either FAUX or carrier should be considered for refund
[10:50] <capqu> if refund is the path you wish to take
[10:50] <capqu> otherwise it leaves kinda awkward situations of being "forced" into skill injectors
[10:50] <capqu> although i hate the use of the term forced
[10:50] <capqu> you understand what i mean
[10:50] <capqu> i'd go as far as this:
[10:50] <capqu> no refunds
[10:50] <capqu> enjoy ur carriers
[10:50] <capqu> its too complicated to refund anything
[10:51] <capqu> someone is always going to feel left out
[10:51] <capqu> and i know you arent expected to cater to everyone
[10:51] <darren_fox> That might create issues with ship conversion
[10:51] <ccp_larrikin> I think thats a lot worse than what we've proposed :simple_smile: A lot more people left out
[10:51] <capqu> but as you said, i didnt get drone skills on my moros pilot reimbursed
[10:51] <capqu> i didnt get torps on my naglfar
[10:51] <capqu> etc
[10:51] <capqu> giving any sp leads to entitlement
[10:52] <capqu> so imo its either all or nothing
[10:52] <capqu> and if you went with the route of racial carrier iv + fax i to board a fax i dont think you'd get any complaints if you didnt refund
[10:53] <darren_fox> But that breaks the plan of having the fax as a different capital
[10:53] <ccp_larrikin> ^^^
[10:53] <capqu> yes but plans are made to be broken
[10:53] <capqu> having an avenue closed because it messes with some arbritrary graph of what ships are what isnt a good idea imo
[10:54] <ccp_larrikin> I think there is a middle-ground, and thats what we've tried to hit.
[10:55] <capqu> the fact that you wanted to do anything to compensate sp obviously cant be seen as negative
[10:56] <sebastien_st.frusquin> it's not a middle ground when you tell people that what they could do before, well, they have to sacrifice part of it after
[10:56] <capqu> no sebastien, it is
[10:56] <capqu> if it wasnt a middle ground you wouldnt get shit
[10:57] <sebastien_st.frusquin> but that's the thing, we are not getting shit
[10:57] <capqu> bullshit, you're getting the choice of racial carrier or racial fax
[10:57] <sebastien_st.frusquin> if I reinject my SP in what they were before, all I get is I lost triage ability
[10:57] <darren_fox> Today you if you are maxed, you can fly a slowcat or a triage carrier. Slowcat is going away. The new carrier, while based on the current hull, is a different ship
[10:58] <sebastien_st.frusquin> that's not getting shit, that's losing shit
[10:58] <sebastien_st.frusquin> you can sugarcoat all you want, but that's it
[10:58] <capqu> did you cry when your gila lost a lowslot
[10:58] <capqu> and they introduced a differnt ship with 4 lowslots?
[10:58] <capqu> no you didnt
[10:58] <capqu> its the same thing
[10:58] <sebastien_st.frusquin> I don't have a gila, why would I have cried ?
[10:58] <sebastien_st.frusquin> gila owners on the other hand, they cried a lot
[10:59] <capqu> not sure thats even true
[10:59] <sebastien_st.frusquin> you haven't heard them ratters then
[10:59] <capqu> who cares what fuckin ratters think
[10:59] <capqu> anyway moving on
[10:59] <sebastien_st.frusquin> they are paying customers just like you
[10:59] <capqu> instead of bitching lets try find a solution
[10:59] <capqu> that appeases all parties
[10:59] <sebastien_st.frusquin> there is no solution
[11:00] <sebastien_st.frusquin> that's simple numbers
[11:00] <capqu> then get the fuck out of this channel
[11:00] <capqu> why are you even here
[11:00] <capqu> if you dont think there is a solution
[11:00] <sebastien_st.frusquin> just to rain on you thinking like is beautiful ?
[11:00] <capqu> u dont know me
[11:01] <darren_fox> I think it boils down to this: A more elegant solution to SP / refund could be found if racial faux required racial carrier. The question is if that is more important than the overall plan and roles for capitals.
[11:02] <ccp_larrikin> @darren_fox: more elegant solution for current carrier pilots maybe, but not for new Faux pilots
[11:02] <capqu> i think new faux pilots is a minority larrikin to be fair
[11:03] <ccp_larrikin> over what timeframe?
[11:03] <darren_fox> 3500 newbeans in horde might disagree ;;)
[11:04] <capqu> focusing on the newbie is a mistake
[11:04] <capqu> the current playerbase has proved very loyal and has very small turnover
[11:04] <capqu> eve has never been a game that gets huge influxes of new people, its an old game with an old playerbase
[11:05] <capqu> why would you chose to screw over current players for potential future ones
[11:08] <capqu> loaded question, sorry
[11:09] <capqu> i am trying to be impartial but i have habits to break
[11:09] <capqu> now i will go look at the skill tree and find a way to fix this mess ok ccp_larrikin
[11:09] <ccp_larrikin> I'm interested in your ideas :simple_smile:
[11:16] <darren_fox> "The full refound" option: Refund racial carrier, capital remote skills and fighters. That way you'll retrain capital remote skills if you go the faux option, you'll retrain fighters if you go carrier.
[11:16] <capqu> thats not a full refund
[11:17] <darren_fox> right, it's missing tactical logistics
[11:17] <capqu> and links
[11:17] <capqu> and logi v
[11:17] <capqu> assuming only one of fax and carriers gets links
[11:17] <darren_fox> Links and logi are still pretty relevant for other ships
[11:17] <capqu> uuuh no
[11:18] <capqu> logi v is owned by a hell of a lot of characters without any cruiser v
[11:49] <capqu> ccp_larrikin, http://comfy.moe/focwke.png hows this look so far
[11:50] <capqu> i dont know if its possible to remove an injected skill
[11:50] <capqu> but the price of the book is an issue for a lot of the people i talk to
[11:51] <lamhoofd_hashur> i think refunding warfare links goes a bit far, it sets a precedent
[11:51] <capqu> thats why its in red ;)
[11:51] <capqu> aka do not refund
[11:52] <lamhoofd_hashur> yep
[11:52] <capqu> i think disconnecting logistics cruiser from triage is a good idea though
[11:52] <capqu> its not like logistics frigate is required for logistics cruiser
[11:53] <capqu> and if anyone has a logi pilot that is also a triage pilot they can just put the sp back in
[11:53] <max_kolonko> Im all for dusconecting triage from logustucs
[11:54] <capqu> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nIG39mHIgAwXUklGpqVeFzkX-9RmPiQTHgAZTc-6aTQ/edit?usp=sharing heres the sheet i made btw if u wanna make notes or change it while im afk
[11:54] <capqu> any of u
[11:54] <5pitf1re> I like the idea to couple triage to thermodynamics 5
[11:54] <capqu> i made a copy so fuck that one up as much as u want
[11:56] <max_kolonko> For me the main point (regardless how skill tree will be reinvented or not for new carriers and fauxes) is the requirment to retrain something you had to 4 or 5 before the change hits
[11:58] <max_kolonko> If you had one carrier lvl 5 and if ccp decide to reduce multipliers you get most of what you had befire (probably one to 5 and other to 3-4)
[11:58] <max_kolonko> But you still have to spend solid month getting second to 5
[11:58] <max_kolonko> Niw get a char that ave more than 1 race trained
[12:00] <max_kolonko> He have a loooot of training to get to the point where he was before the changes
[12:01] <capqu> if you want to be able to do more than 1 race of both carrier and fax sure
[12:01] <capqu> but if u want to do 2 races of fax and 1 race of carrier
[12:01] <capqu> all u have to do is inject 2 fax books
[12:01] <max_kolonko> U agree with your proposal
[12:01] <max_kolonko> I*
[12:02] <max_kolonko> Just pointing out the main problem from my perspective
[12:02] <capqu> yea
[12:02] <capqu> for me for example
[12:02] <max_kolonko> The mechanics of hiw this should be done is kind of secondary
[12:02] <capqu> i have a gallente/caldari/amarr triage pilot
[12:02] <capqu> so i will inject caldari and amarr fax
[12:02] <capqu> and swap caldari and amarr carrier to fax sp
[12:03] <capqu> but keep the gal carrier
[12:03] <capqu> seems like an ok situation, assuming fax use links
[12:03] <max_kolonko> But going back to your proposal - why would you need to select?
[12:03] <max_kolonko> If you shoyld have both to begin with
[12:03] <capqu> because they want to distinguish the ships, so we have to work with that assumption
[12:03] <max_kolonko> Yes you want
[12:04] <capqu> otherwise i would suggest making FAX like logistics cruiser skill, and just require carrier iv in addition or something
[12:04] <max_kolonko> But then you have players that have both triage and rstting carriers
[12:04] <capqu> but that is not an option atm
[12:04] <max_kolonko> Ratting*
[12:04] <capqu> yea i know, its hard to please everyone
[12:04] <max_kolonko> Why he shoukd choose?
[12:04] <capqu> he shouldnt have to i agree but i dont know what the solution should be
[12:05] <max_kolonko> i thibk sp infkation is not a problem
[12:05] <max_kolonko> And they should just get both
[12:05] <max_kolonko> Place arbitrally requirments
[12:05] <max_kolonko> If at day x you have this ser if skills to this level you have carrier y
[12:05] <max_kolonko> If you had this you have fax y
[12:06] <max_kolonko> Iff both, both
[12:06] <capqu> yea its not hard to implement
[12:06] <capqu> its more that they do not want to do it
[12:07] <5pitf1re> let's be honest, capitals don't follow the classic skill progression path anyway
[12:08] <5pitf1re> you have advanced spaceship command, capital ships and then the specification skill
[12:08] <5pitf1re> as if it would be a t2 ship
[12:08] <5pitf1re> we already have a superfluous skill in the entire equation
[12:08] <5pitf1re> one that is probably meant to be a time sink
[12:09] <capqu> they could shift the time sink in FAX by giving racial triage modules
[12:10] <capqu> which require tactical v, racial fax iv & racial triage i
[12:10] <capqu> and have a heavy bonus per level of racial triage or something
[12:10] <capqu> so that giving out the FAX skill to everyone doesnt matter as much
[12:10] <capqu> since they will still have to train the racial triage module up for each fax
[12:11] <capqu> idk just spitballin'
[12:17] <jezza_mcwaffle> Its impossible to please everyone with this change, given the fundementals of carriers are being changed and FAX aren't simply an extension of old carriers but new ships themselves.
[12:17] <jezza_mcwaffle> @ccp_larrikin correct me if I am wrong but after the change you can split the SP how you want between the two ships and don't have to dump it all in one
[12:20] <sebastien_st.frusquin> unallocated SP are just that, uncallocated SP
[12:20] <sebastien_st.frusquin> you can dump them anywhere you want
[12:21] <sebastien_st.frusquin> mining skills, titan skills, social skills
[12:23] <ccp_larrikin> @jezza_mcwaffle: correct, you can spend the skills how you want. You could spend them on commandships etc. if you wanted too
[12:24] <jezza_mcwaffle> Ahhhhh okay, I thought for some reason they could only be split between the FAX and Carrier skill.
[12:34] <jezza_mcwaffle> So if you want you can have (if you have carrier 5) both FAX and Carrier to 4 after these changes, unless my calculations are wrong, I hardly see how that is a massively negative thing, sure its not level 5 but you can still do both things, your not being forced into 1 role.
[12:54] <steveronuken> Stop being reasonable! :wink:
[12:54] <capqu> good input steve thanks
[13:13] <scott_ormands> @ccp_larrikin: can I ask why the FAX skill is 500m/rank 14 like the other carrier skills? my understanding for the racial carrier skills having a higher rank (14 for carrier versus 12 for dread) and cost (500m for each carrier versus 100m for dread dread) my understanding has always been that this was the case because the carrier was such a swiss army knife so to say but atleast 1/3 of the original functionality of the carrier book has been moved away from that. Did you or would you be willing look into bringing the rank/cost of the racial carrier/FAX skills more into line with the dread skills? I understand that the carrier skill still gives access to supercarriers so it probably cant be adjusted too low.
[13:16] <ccp_larrikin> The low cost / rank of the Dreadnought skill is the anomaly rather than the high cost / rank of the Carrier skill.
[13:17] <5pitf1re> This makes me wonder, why does the carrier skill grant access to super carriers if they are in fact two different capital ship classes?
[13:17] <5pitf1re> Same should hold true for FAX in that case then.
[13:18] <scott_ormands> are there any plans to bring dreads into line with the carrier books since they are the outliers?
[13:18] <ccp_larrikin> @scott_ormands: not at this stage
[13:19] <scott_ormands> ok, thank you
[13:20] <ccp_larrikin> @5pitf1re: regarding the carrier/supercarrier skill, its a good point. In an ideal world they might be split up. Similar to Dreads and Titans perhaps? We have no plans to do this at this stage. Regarding Carrier/Faux, the functionality is considerably different. it would be simmilar to comparing Logistics Cruisers and Assault Cruisers
[13:25] <capqu> yea but logistics cruiser and assault cruisers do not have racial skills
[13:25] <capqu> they use cruiser v aka carrier v
[13:25] <5pitf1re> u-huh
[13:25] <capqu> and logistic cruiser i and assault cruiser i
[13:25] <capqu> or drone carrier i and faux i
[13:25] <capqu> ;)
[13:29] <ccp_larrikin> Sure, I'll grant you the example doesn't parallel exactly. We don't have tech two Capitals. If we mirrored subcapital functionality it would be something like 'Racial Capital' for Dreads/Carriers/Faux and 'Racial Super Capital' for Supers/Titans.
[13:30] <capqu> and was that ruled out?
[13:30] <capqu> because honestly that seems like the simplest solution
[13:30] <5pitf1re> it does
[13:31] <capqu> inherit highest carrier to carrier skill, highest dread to dread skill, highest racial dread or carrier to racial capital
[13:31] <capqu> same for super/titan to racial super
[13:31] <ccp_larrikin> What about super pilots?
[13:31] <5pitf1re> super carrier and titans can be split
[13:31] <ccp_larrikin> why the exception for supercarriers and titans?
[13:32] <ccp_larrikin> that isn't the simplest solution
[13:32] <5pitf1re> think racial BC vs. racial BS
[13:32] <capqu> current level of fighterbombers / titan -> racial supercaptial
[13:33] <capqu> you get the races for which you have at least carrier iv for currently
[13:33] <capqu> or titan i
[13:33] <capqu> assuming you have fibo i
[13:33] <ccp_larrikin> so your proposing merging all the carrier/faux/dread skills into 'racial capital', but creating two levels, where supercarrier and titan are different somehow?
[13:33] <capqu> no
[13:33] <5pitf1re> in that case you'd have to reimburse a lot of skillbook costs for titans
[13:33] <capqu> let me explain again
[13:33] <ccp_larrikin> Thats what @5pitf1re said right?
[13:34] <5pitf1re> I'd be fine with that to be honest.
[13:34] <capqu> faux req: racial capital i & faux i
[13:34] <5pitf1re> It feels natural.
[13:34] <capqu> carrier req: racial capital i & carrier i
[13:34] <capqu> dread req: racial capital i & dread i
[13:34] <ccp_larrikin> @5pitf1re: but whats your reasoning for it? why split the titan/supercarrier skills? If they are both 'supercapitals', following the subcapital example they should be the same skill?
[13:35] <capqu> super req: racial supercarrier i & mothership i
[13:35] <capqu> titan req: racial supercapital i & titan i
[13:35] <capqu> supercarrier -> supercapital
[13:35] <capqu> *
[13:35] <capqu> as for distributing current skills
[13:35] <5pitf1re> It doesn't necessarily have to be split, but one could argue that a titan simply is another power class than a super carrier.
[13:35] <5pitf1re> also versatility
[13:35] <5pitf1re> bridging etc.
[13:36] <capqu> racial supercapital level: highest of racial titan or fibo w/racial carrier iv
[13:36] <capqu> racial capital level: highest of racial carrier and racial dread
[13:36] <capqu> generic carrier level: highest current racial carrier
[13:36] <5pitf1re> capqu, how do you deal with people that spent 5bil on titan skill books though?
[13:36] <capqu> u get racial supercapital and titan book to replace them
[13:36] <5pitf1re> would you reimburse the cost minus the fibo skill bookß
[13:36] <capqu> no
[13:37] <ccp_larrikin> its interesting to discuss, splitting skills (class v's type v's racial skills). In the end it comes down to 'Capitals are special and don't follow sub-capital rules'
[13:37] <5pitf1re> at the moment they follow an artificial skill/time sink rule
[13:37] <capqu> sure, so we can leave them at t1 but require a racial and a specialization skill
[13:43] <5pitf1re> @ccp_larrikin: can you confirm that it's just a bug that covert cynos are prohibited in usual non-gated combat anomalies?
[13:43] <ccp_larrikin> @5pitf1re: I'm not sure sorry. I'll ask around but if you think its a bug, submit a bug report
[13:44] <capqu> are you decided on what to do with links on faux and carriers yet btw ccp_larrikin
[13:44] <capqu> not asking for what they'll be on just wondering if you've got ideas in mind
[13:49] <ccp_larrikin> @capqu: not yet. We've got some ideas but we're working on the tech side before we start annoucning anything :simple_smile:
[13:49] <capqu> glad to hear
[13:51] <capqu> very useful for a capital fleet to get links without adding supers
[13:51] <ccp_larrikin> I used to run an X-Type fit link Archon in slowcat fleets a lot
[13:52] <ccp_larrikin> so I know where your coming from :simple_smile:
[13:52] <capqu> yea, since u cant bridge a real command ship around sometimes its a niche role but its there
[13:52] <ccp_larrikin> for sure
[13:53] <5pitf1re> ghost ride command ships :stuck_out_tongue:
[13:53] <5pitf1re> like a bauce
[13:54] <scott_ormands> http://puu.sh/n1w61/e35a4ee147.jpg
[13:54] <scott_ormands> one of my old corpies linkede this
[13:55] <ccp_larrikin> @5pitf1re: my perfect amarr/caldari triage pilot was also a perfect HIC and Command ship pilot :simple_smile:
[13:57] <titus.tallang> scott_ormands: you can't cyno in deadspace
[13:57] <titus.tallang> that's been a thing for...a long time
[13:57] <titus.tallang> so it depends on whether the anom in question is deadspace
[13:57] <titus.tallang> even ungated can be deadspace
[13:57] <capqu> titus PLEASE
[13:57] <capqu> stop
[13:57] <titus.tallang> sup?
[13:58] <5pitf1re> we're talking about the erryday normal Fosaken Hubs, Havens etc.
[13:58] <scott_ormands> anomalies, as in havens
[13:58] <titus.tallang> oh
[13:58] <titus.tallang> yeah those aren't deadspace
[13:58] <titus.tallang> sorry just catching up with scrollback
[13:59] <scott_ormands> no worries
[14:00] <ccp_larrikin> @here just got confirmation, this is not intended functionality (the cyno in anoms thing). We're working on it :simple_smile: [cc: focusgrouplogbot]
[14:00] <rocket_x> :smile:
[14:01] <capqu> thumbs up
[14:01] <ccp_fozzie> the change was supposed to disallow cynos in those dungeons that also prevent warping and pull you into the center location when you enter (since in those dungeons you can't warp to the cyno)
[14:01] <5pitf1re> oy
[14:01] <5pitf1re> cheers! :smile:
[14:01] <ccp_fozzie> but it applying to freewarp dungeons like anoms is a bug and the team is on it
[14:01] <5pitf1re> which "dungeons" are those?
[14:01] <capqu> anything behind a gate for the most part
[14:02] <5pitf1re> ah kk
[14:02] <capqu> since if u warp to the cyno u land on the first gate
[14:02] <5pitf1re> yea, I see
[14:02] <capqu> or things like fw beacons i guess
[14:02] <capqu> i didnt think you could cyno on them anyway tho
[14:02] <titus.tallang> ccp_fozzie: can we maybe get covops cynos allowed in those?
[14:02] <titus.tallang> you can't warp to them anyway
[14:02] <capqu> being able to covert cyno inside escalations would be too strong
[14:03] <5pitf1re> wtb cov cyno pass key for escalations
[14:03] <capqu> and i bet there are systems disallowing it technically anyway, bc of the way the gate works with the deadspace pocket
[14:24] <ccp_fozzie> yeah many of those dungeons already prevented it
[14:24] <ccp_fozzie> but some didn't
[14:24] <ccp_fozzie> this current state is broken though
[14:31] <scott_ormands> is there any chance we can get some info about the new fighter skills that got released today? i dont want to train them if I'm going to get credited the sp for having fighters/fibo 5 already
[14:36] <titus.tallang> devblog is coming Later This Week™
[14:36] <titus.tallang> silly
[23:49] <nyrocron> maybe i missed this but will both carrier and fax sp be reimbursed or just carrier?
[23:50] <nyrocron> guessing just carrier, was just a bit confused by "If you start training the Force Auxiliary skill after the patch tomorrow, you can reallocate your refunded skillpoints right back into your racial carrier skill so you can fly both ships. Or spend them on anything you like!"
[23:50] <nyrocron> but i guess he's just talking about the carrier sp