[15:01] <jezza_mcwaffle> On the tracking dicussion I thought we moved towards edge to edge on the titansd?
[16:14] <scott_ormands> That would be optimal but the code rework needed is not insignificant
[19:54] <titus.tallang> yeah it seems the focus group is pretty much in agreement that edge to edge is needed
[19:55] <titus.tallang> the disagreement is on:
[19:55] <titus.tallang> 1) should this apply to all ships (would require lots of numbers balancing to not break certain subcap classes)
[19:55] <titus.tallang> 2) should this only apply to capital weaponry (would require less balancing, but breaks player expectations and is needless special-casing)
[20:35] <jezza_mcwaffle> I mean it makes sense to introduce it to capitals especially Titans regardless of it being special casing if one of the issues is time spent reworking other ship classes. They can be looked at later since its less of an issue
[20:42] <jezza_mcwaffle> Obviousily I don't run into Titans very often living in a WH :wink: My main concerns are the obscene power of FAX's in small groups when the hostiles can't commit any more than 5 dreads. Currently provided they can be fed cap boosters and stront they invulnerable.
[20:51] <jezza_mcwaffle> Just to summarise they're biggest issues here for WH users (which I'm guessing Darren and Noobman have already covered?) with cap boosters they are immune to neuts, especially with the amount bonus on the Lif and Ninazu, plus being able to use 3200 charghes in heavy cap boosters means its incredibly easy to fit 5 of em and not care about cap.
[20:51] <jezza_mcwaffle> Even if you nerfed the boosters by changing the charge volume around, reload time on boosters, amount bonus etc it would still leave the Minowaka and Apostle, especially when paired as the default option to go to because of the power of batteries + amount of cap. You'd never be able to neut one out before it dropped out of siege.
[20:51] <jezza_mcwaffle> I've thought of a few ways to look at balancing them, obviously revisiting the bonues or the numbers like the increase to cap boost amount on cap booster charges with the Lif, reducing base cap pool especially on the Apostle and Minowaka, having cap batteries effect (negatively) recharge amount / time, increasing Triage time mode (obviously probably the worst change). I think the capital cap booster could do with being the only booster capable of carrying 3200 charges and maybe giving them a long reload time like an ancillary module, although obviousily you don't want to simply kill them off as being usable compared to the Minowaka and Apostle.
[20:53] <jezza_mcwaffle> Basically pre FAX you could always neut out triage if you couldn't DPS it down, now you can't do that and they tank insane amounts of damage so they're unbreakable. Obviousily before we had ECM immunity you could jam them but that was so incredibly shitty I'm not even going to touch it :wink:
[20:56] <jezza_mcwaffle> It's not a big of deal with the mini and gal dreads as they have a worse slot layout (balanced slot layout), don't have the bonuses to cap boosters and have a shit tank bonus. But they can track subcaps so the Phoenix isn't a pure win (literally only reason to use a Nag not a Phoenix in WH's is because the Phoenix needs HAWs the Nag doesnt)
[21:21] <xttz> imo trying to balance the same ships for both nullsec and WH space is futile
[21:21] <titus.tallang> i'd wait a bit to see if people come up with creative ways to deal with the new fax machines
[21:54] <lamhoofd_hashur> there was a way
[21:54] <lamhoofd_hashur> due to ECM
[21:54] <lamhoofd_hashur> but with the immunity back, there is no way