[01:19] <sardcaid> I'll work with John to create a discussion doc from this spread over the coming week as it gets populated
[01:19] <selto_black> im working on populating my section
[01:19] <selto_black> Im not that verbose though
[01:19] <selto_black> i like to be concice
[01:19] <suitonia> How do you create line breaks in excel?
[01:19] <suitonia> Shift + Enter doesn't work
[01:20] <sardcaid> alt+enter
[01:20] <sardcaid> and so the real spreadsheet in space pilots come out
[01:20] <selto_black> Hue
[01:20] <sardcaid> spreadsheet AT champions represent
[01:20] <selto_black> i lost most of my spreadsheets when i lost all my bpo's
[01:21] <sardcaid> haha
[01:21] <sardcaid> as would have I if I didn't have mine backed up on google drive
[01:21] <selto_black> >.>
[01:21] <selto_black> always back up your stuff kids
[01:21] <selto_black> you never know when youll be the one to lose your stuff
[01:22] <sardcaid> if it helps suitonia you can also type up something in a word editor and paste it into cells
[01:22] <suitonia> that will probably be easier
[01:23] <sardcaid> That sheet is to provide an at a glance view of everyone's ideas, I know you've a lot to say and that spread is not meant for more verbose discussions
[01:23] <sardcaid> feel free to expand your sheet as needed though!
[01:24] <johndrees> This should work nicely. I plan on nerding out on mine tomorrow while I'm at work.
[01:25] <selto_black> Hue work seems to be where most gets said in this chat anyway >.> or is that just me?
[01:25] <syenna-celeste> Not just you.:stuck_out_tongue:
[01:26] <scipioartelius> o/ all
[01:27] <syenna-celeste> Hai
[01:27] <selto_black> 7o
[01:36] <scipioartelius> https://ccpfocusgroups.slack.com/archives/tactical-destroyers/p1444526731002358 Selto Blackselto_black Hue work seems to be where most gets said in this chat anyway >.> or is that just me? Oct 11th at 1:25 AM
[01:36] <scipioartelius> Not just you. I think that is pretty true
[01:37] <selto_black> lol
[01:44] <scipioartelius> https://ccpfocusgroups.slack.com/archives/tactical-destroyers/p1444497738002248 sardcaid well it's very simple, you do away with velocity bonus on the two ships and swap to a MWD bonus Oct 10th at 5:22 PM
[01:44] <scipioartelius> Just on this bit, I'll put my hand up and say I'm not really in favour of a spoolup timer as opposed to the cooldown.
[01:45] <scipioartelius> I'm much more in favour of Fozzie's concept of moving attributes into the mode bonuses as a way to encourage people to switch modes regularly and leaving the mode switching alone
[01:46] <scipioartelius> Every time I switch modes, it's because I need the effects that mode provides. Cooldown is a better option as it allows people to access the bonuses they need immediately.(edited)
[01:47] <scipioartelius> I don't want to have to wait for those effects to kick in. I guess it increases benefit to pilots with more skill who can predict a few seconds ahead what the situation is going to be and that aspect I don't mind, I just think that switching to a spool up timer takes away from what is unique about the ship, where the mode switching is a really fun part of the current design and unique to the class
[01:51] <chessur> O/
[01:52] <sardcaid> Given the laggy nature of EVE with server ticks, I tend to agree
[01:53] <sardcaid> Also we're not talking about BC / BS, where you do have time to perform a mode switch, for the most part
[01:53] <johndrees> Hey, nice video you just put up. How did you enjoy the apoc? I had been considering it with a nano - configuration but it seemed too slow and has pretty poor defense once it's been scrammed.
[01:53] <sardcaid> Destroyer PvP tends to be very knife fighty and fast paced
[01:53] <sardcaid> For T3D I think mode spoolups is a poor way to acknowledge over-powerful modes
[01:53] <sardcaid> It just so happens to address the unintentional insta warp that conf / svip currently enjoy
[01:54] <johndrees> Looked like you had a good time with it though.
[01:56] <scipioartelius> yes totally. Small ship pvp is fast and outside defence mode, depending on fit, the T3D can be very vulnerable to dying quickly
[01:58] <scipioartelius> I think most players when they switch, would prefer to have those effects immediately - it seems that is kind of the whole point of switching, to gain access to the bonuses you want/need - so having immediate access to them currently is more fun than a delayed access. I can't imagine anyone complaining that they died because they got the bonus they wanted. But I can imagine people not enjoying switching modes, but dying before the effects kick in, or they lose tackle and their opponent gets away, etc. Just doesn't seem as enjoyable, especially in edge cases
[01:59] <selto_black> it is much the same in pve, mode switching is reactionary for the most part. As you saw in the video, if i hadn't already been in speed mode i would have switched instantly.
[01:59] <scipioartelius> Yes
[02:16] <gorski_car> Them old icons tho chessur had me nostalgic
[03:09] <chessur> Apoc is really fun imo
[03:09] <chessur> Navy apoc is better tho. With links / snakes you can get 3.1k/s on it
[03:09] <chessur> so its really fast
[03:10] <chessur> damage application is insane. Proper fit- it can hit you with scorch (+tracking bonus) out to 100ishK for 700 DPS or something like that
[03:10] <chessur> You are right about scramms though
[03:10] <chessur> it has no defense in that area
[03:10] <chessur> so you need to fly with antisupport
[03:10] <chessur> :simple_smile:
[03:11] <selto_black> Huh, is there a link for that fit?
[03:11] <chessur> one sec
[03:16] <chessur> [Apocalypse Navy Issue, Apocalypse Navy Issue fit] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Large Ancillary Armor Repairer Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II Heat Sink II 500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive Large Micro Jump Drive Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Large Energy Locus Coordinator II Large Energy Locus Coordinator II Large Energy Locus Coordinator I Mid-grade Snake Alpha Mid-grade Snake Beta Mid-grade Snake Gamma Mid-grade Snake Delta Mid-grade Snake Epsilon Mid-grade Snake Omega Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' Evasive Maneuvering EM-703 Zor's Custom Navigation Hyper-Link Zainou 'Deadeye' Sharpshooter ST-905 Inherent Implants 'Lancer' Large Energy Turret LE-1003
[03:16] <chessur> the last low slot
[03:16] <chessur> you can change up
[03:16] <chessur> throw in a 3rd nano, energized adaptive, sig amp
[03:16] <chessur> your choice
[03:16] <chessur> that fit though
[03:16] <chessur> 733 DPS out to 100+12
[03:16] <chessur> Apoc has optimal and tracking bonus
[03:17] <chessur> so at 100K with high tracking scorch, and the bonus- you apply perfectly to almost everything
[03:23] <selto_black> Good god...
[03:27] <johndrees> Sweet, it definitely seems fun. I tend to fly like a broke guy...mostly because I AM a broke guy, so although I have snakes and sometimes I have links, I tend to favor ships able to function without them. I can absolutely see how it would be an awesome time though.
[03:37] <johndrees> I'd like just to say, MJD's are one of the coolest, most dynamic, and fun additions to the game in recent times. The fact that they require player skill to really make them shine is a testament to the good design they represent. If we can accomplish a change to t3d that adds anything close to that level of enjoyment and fun to the ships we will have succeeded far beyond what most of the community expects.
[03:47] <johndrees> Work is a great place to do this stuff since it's a bit harder to actually play the game while working.
[03:49] <chessur> Prepare for chessur sperg post
[03:50] <chessur> Added a Plain Text snippet:Chessurs T3D (jackdaw Sperg) This is going to be somewhat of a long ramble of just purely my viewpoint, and how I think that Fozzies post would play into eve (as I see it) First let me define the idea of a T3D (or what I think that they should do) Primary job is light anti-tackle work Excels at killing other destroyers and frigates with ease Fast, with top (unheated speeds topping out around 3k/s before links / Snakes / Speed mods) have minimal eHP. IE. I dont see these ships having any type of worthwhile buffer. I dont like the idea of t3D having 20+K eHP. Instead I would favor active tanked bonuses. I like this for two reasons. The first would be: Destroyers are meant to be easily killed by larger ships. instead of using large amounts of eHP to survive, they should instead focus on damage mitigation through speed / transversal- with great active tanking bonuses to quickly repair glancing blows. Secondly I feel that this also brings them into line when they are dealing with larger ships. personally i dont like the idea of s... Add Comment
[03:50] <chessur> Would like some feedback when anyone gets the time
[03:51] <chessur> I am going to try and explore radical mode switch ideas, instead of working on just tossing numbers around
[03:51] <chessur> going to see if something can stick:simple_smile:
[03:52] <johndrees> Cool beans.
[04:05] <selto_black> Something occured to me while reading your post chessur. Should the T3ds benifit the base stats of the ship its self or the mods you place on said ship? Id prefer that latter.
[04:06] <selto_black> If you look at the hecate most of its bonuses apply to the mods themselves.
[04:09] <selto_black> @chessur: How would you feel about switching the t3ds base resist bonus onto an effectiveness bonus for active and passive resist mods?
[04:23] <chessur> Personally the more you take away from the base stats of the ship the better
[04:23] <chessur> i think that adding abilitys to mods offers unique fitting choices
[04:24] <chessur> and other gameplay options based on fittings- which will have more variations than just going with amazing base stats
[04:24] <chessur> What are your thoughts of the unique mode switches
[04:24] <chessur> ?
[04:25] <selto_black> ?...
[04:25] <selto_black> !
[04:25] <selto_black> thsi is what i get for not scrolling down
[04:25] <selto_black> one sec
[04:29] <selto_black> For PvP the concepts seem sound. However i am unsure how i could reliably PvE with the modes being as you suggest.
[04:29] <chessur> True
[04:29] <chessur> But I think that PvE wise
[04:29] <chessur> jackdaw with out defense mode can still easily run lv 1/2
[04:30] <selto_black> if given the extra low, i could see the jackdaw being viable for blitzing lvl 4's
[04:31] <chessur> ?
[04:31] <chessur> you sure?
[04:31] <selto_black> Not 100%
[04:31] <chessur> it has no damage
[04:31] <chessur> and there are so many BS that you have to go through
[04:31] <chessur> Oracle is my preferred Lv4 blitzing ship
[04:31] <selto_black> as ive only read up on blitzing
[04:31] <chessur> ahh yah
[04:31] <chessur> no
[04:31] <chessur> it doesn't do nearly enough DPS
[04:32] <selto_black> Hmm
[04:32] <chessur> I have farmed many a Lv4 missoins
[04:32] <chessur> in high sec, low, and in FW
[04:32] <chessur> T3D wouldn't really work
[04:32] <chessur> I just don't think that they are great PvE ships outside lv1/2 misisons
[04:32] <chessur> Shattered wormholes were purpose build for them I guess
[04:33] <chessur> However even then, if you don't need webs / point and can still go 3BCS in the low
[04:33] <chessur> killing them shoudln't be that bad
[04:33] <selto_black> daws cant do c13's
[04:33] <chessur> claws?
[04:33] <selto_black> maybe a passive daw... maybe
[04:33] <chessur> wtf?
[04:34] <selto_black> jackdaw -> daw
[04:34] <selto_black> im lazy
[04:34] <chessur> ohh lkol
[04:34] <chessur> it looked like a C L
[04:34] <chessur> no a d to me
[04:34] <chessur> so i thought you were talkinga bout the intyu
[04:34] <chessur> hahah
[04:34] <selto_black> lol
[04:35] <selto_black> no but the reason daws cant do c13 is because of the shield reduction due to it being a wolf-rayet(edited)
[04:35] <chessur> yah
[04:35] <chessur> Honestly
[04:35] <chessur> PvE is a real back seat concern for me
[04:35] <selto_black> lol Obviously
[04:35] <chessur> These ships are not PvE boats
[04:36] <selto_black> im not trying to buff pve in t3d's
[04:36] <chessur> and using them as such is very inefficient
[04:36] <johndrees> You know, I've been playing since 2008 and I've never actually run a mission so my pve input is...not relevant.
[04:36] <chessur> I have run many
[04:36] <chessur> and the only time I have used a small ship
[04:36] <chessur> was lv 1 /2
[04:36] <chessur> where i took no damage anyway
[04:36] <selto_black> there are much better boats to use for pve outside of c13's
[04:36] <chessur> yes
[04:36] <selto_black> however,
[04:36] <chessur> that is what I mean
[04:36] <selto_black> they do make newbros good money for the investment early on with less training time than an AF.
[04:37] <chessur> an AF is never something a newbrow should train into
[04:37] <selto_black> which is why i made the arguement that pve should be atleast considered
[04:37] <chessur> RLML caracal can do just as well (if not better than jackdaw)
[04:37] <chessur> at killing misisons
[04:37] <chessur> and it can go HML mode quickly enough
[04:37] <chessur> I think that PvE is a consideration when talking about larger ships
[04:38] <chessur> I just don't really see it inside the T3D imo
[04:38] <chessur> Because if you follow normal progression
[04:38] <chessur> getting a cruiser, then BC is a much better route to follow
[04:38] <chessur> if you really are set on doing missons
[04:38] <selto_black> lol. I tend to buck normal progression in most games
[04:38] <selto_black> i make 90% of my income from t3d's both in k and j-space
[04:39] <selto_black> clone soilders, C2's, garmurs bp hunting...
[04:39] <selto_black> the list can go on
[04:39] <selto_black> if you focus on one specific area of pve yes there are better ships
[04:40] <selto_black> but if you wanna try looking for all pve from system to system just scanning it down and milking it for all it has then t3d is the way to go
[04:40] <selto_black> its the jack of all trades pve boat imo
[04:44] <johndrees> What a weirdo lol.
[04:46] <selto_black> Who me?
[04:49] <johndrees> Yeah haha, I'm mostly kidding. It's fun to be creative with the way we do things in the game. I was using a shield tanked AutoCannon fit Legion as a black ops hunter for a long time.(edited)
[05:45] <selto_black> lol
[06:52] <syenna-celeste> can we keep the non discussion stuff to general
[06:52] <syenna-celeste> plx
[12:24] <johndrees> Good morning everyone.