[19:13] <suitonia> I know this group is dead. But to summarise this is what I think the problems are with T3Ds right now.
[19:13] <suitonia> Svipul/Confessor: The base speeds in speed mode are better than every combat frigate in the game. I would like to see 66% base speed replaced with a propulsion bonus instead (Like the Hecate) You do not have to restrict it to MWDs like the Hecate but I really like the balance of the Hecate for this exact reason. Since it has frigate speed/agility until scrammed, then it gets tracked perfectly by battleships.
[19:13] <suitonia> I go into more detail here (shameless plug) with this blog post. https://suitonia.wordpress.com/2015/12/17/why-are-the-svipul-and-confessor-so-much-more-overpowered-than-the-hecate-and-jackdaw/
[19:13] <suitonia> 2. As with above, base signature radius on both confessor/svipul is too low, I think we mostly all agreed that moving the confessor and svipul up to 60m, and 65m would probably help a lot.
[19:13] <suitonia> 3. Sharpshooter mode is undervalued, I think that giving it a 20% DPS bonus, and then reducing the role bonus on all ships from 50% to 25% would help solve this is a bit more and put more mode swapping options in, also helps add a skill cap to RR Svipuls/Confessors ETC and brawling Svipuls which currently just press approach and F1 and sit in defensive mode the entire fight
[19:13] <suitonia> for the record, this keeps the damage the same as current in sharpshooter mode, because 1 x 1.2 x 1.25 = 1.5 (I.e. 50% damage role bonus)
[19:14] <suitonia> 4: I think the scan resolution bonus in the sharpshooter mode is awful and it's not needed
[19:15] <suitonia> I'd rather just see their scan res boosted up to between attack cruisers/destroyers, and then remove the scan res bonus, this would help with the instalocking svipul problem
[19:15] <suitonia> It's not like scan resolution damping is a common thing nor something which is effective against a T3D
[19:15] <suitonia> so it doesn't need it even for the 'damp defence' aspect
[19:17] <suitonia> The Svipul has some other fitting issues but I think, as mentioned before, and recently mentioned by Fintarue, the fitting discrepancy between arty/ACs is huge (Especially on the Frigate Level) and I don't think you can balance the Svipul until this is resolved. this is however, a much bigger project as it would potentially result in needing to re-balance every small projectile weapons hull.
[20:02] <suitonia> Aside from the Thrasher though I don't think there are any hulls which would become even more dominant with lower Arty Fitting Requirements. Might allow a utility high or slightly more tank on some Arty boats (RF Firetail/Wolf) but I don't see that as too much of an issue.
[20:03] <suitonia> Although I do understand that changing the fitting s of an entire weapon system is a big balance work and has a lot of knock-on effects
[20:08] <titus.tallang> what exactly is the issue you see with the insta svipul compared to other insta fits (such as the insta thrasher) if all other issues with the class were to be resolved?
[20:08] <titus.tallang> picking out the one point i feel remotely qualified to comment on :stuck_out_tongue:
[20:20] <johndrees> Well, there are a number of things that make the insta svipul more viable than other insta lock t3d but chief among them would be that artillery have high alpha potential and they simultaneously have a slot layout that doesn't suffer greatly from the use of sensor boosters. Perhaps more problematic than local sebos is remote sebos though. Then the ship can not only lock nearly anything before it can warp, anything small will not be able to effectively reapproach the gate they jumped in from. Also, @suitonia well done man, you're doing all the hard work keeping this discussion going. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
[20:21] <suitonia> The Svipul (With it's huge base speed) with instalocking fit can kill anything even at 0km
[20:21] <suitonia> even an AB frigate struggles to get under it's guns
[20:21] <suitonia> Which is not something which applies as much to the Thrasher despite the Thrasher having a 50% tracking bonus
[20:21] <suitonia> also the Thrasher dies when it's sneezed on
[20:21] <suitonia> thanks to the Svipul getting 33% shield and armor it has much more tank
[20:22] <suitonia> even in a 'glass' fit with DC only
[20:23] <suitonia> Also a Insta Thrasher is much harder to use behind enemy lines if that makes sense
[20:23] <suitonia> because it has no prop
[20:23] <suitonia> and the Svipul can insta warp
[20:23] <suitonia> and moves so much faster than the thrasher does too
[20:23] <suitonia> so you need a bubbler to even kill an arty svipul camping your space
[20:24] <suitonia> http://puu.sh/mJsgS/df69d379c7.png Here is a Arty Svipul fit which can lock everything in the game before it warps off in sharpshooter
[20:24] <suitonia> Better lock speed than Sig Amp Stiletto in gang
[20:24] <suitonia> Still has 8.32k EHP + Web and MWD
[20:25] <suitonia> every combat frig in the game is slower than you in speed mode so speed mode+web = you track even scram/web frigs at 0km
[20:25] <suitonia> and you can always kite too ofc
[20:25] <suitonia> 8.32k EHP in defensive mode, which, for the record, is better than most buffer fit destroyers
[20:26] <suitonia> For reference, a Thrasher with MSE+DC+Rigs will barely surpass this
[20:27] <suitonia> and thats a brawling fit thrasher
[20:27] <suitonia> And brawling AC fit Thrasher will actually die to an Arty Svipul at 0km
[20:28] <suitonia> and this is a Sensor booster fit we're talking about
[20:29] <suitonia> In relation to your question, by removing the scan resolution boost on the sharpshooter mode, it means normal non boosted arty svipuls wouldn't be able to lock Frigates, making Frigate roaming better
[20:29] <suitonia> and that you would need 2 sensor boosters or more for the same effect as with 1 and now
[20:29] <suitonia> which would help remove that utility web
[20:32] <suitonia> insta thrasher has only 40% of the HP of the Svipul